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"You believe in an invisible, all-powerful God? Absurd. How very unlikely!"
Your friends have never met Barack Obama, but they believe in him. ... because people talk about him, we've seen pictures, we've heard of things he's done. But they don't believe in your God. No-one's ever seen him. And where's the evidence? And anyway, it's so unlikely - it's like a fairy tale!
How do you answer that? And what is this whole probability thing?
200 years ago Paley said if you find a watch, ticking, you don't assume the atoms and molecules got together by accident! You say "Ah, someone's making watches". The existence of living creatures, wondrously complex, is evidence for a Creator.
Just 25 years ago, Fred Hoyle (originally an atheist) calculated the chances of life appearing by chance from the "primordial soup". It's hugely unlikely - like a tornado in a junk-yard accidentally assembling a Boeing 747 in full working order! He reluctantly admitted it must have been designed.
Modern materialists have found four ways to avoid concluding from God's handiwork that He exists. Your friends will hit you with all of them, especially if they've been reading books by Christopher Hitchens! Let's take them in turn.
(1) "Yes yes, creatures are amazingly complex, but it's all done by evolution! It's built up over millions of years from simple algae."
Actually, no, not possible. If you read the science of evolution, you'll find that it can't START life. There has to be growing, self-replicating, chromosome-endowed life first, before evolution can start to work improving it.
(2) "Well yes, spontaneous life is unlikely, but hey - God is even more unlikely! A Creator would have to be WAY more complex than his own life-forms, so there's even less chance of him existing. It's easier to believe in amoebae than a mystical God."
This looks sensible - until you stop and think. We're talking about the probability of life STARTING by random chance - when there was no life before, just carbon atoms. If you're talking about the probability of God STARTING, by chance, from nothing - yes indeed that's even less likely.
But no-one has ever suggested that God started! By chance, or any other way. Nor will they, ever.
Go back to Paley's ticking watch. Could anybody really argue that "Oh well, the probability of a watchmaker existing is even less likely than the chance that this watch came together by accident"?
(3) "Well, it's true that this universe does fit our needs amazingly well. But perhaps there are actually countless billions of different universes, totally outside our universe (so we can never detect them in any way), all with totally different atoms/molecules/whatever. So the chance of ONE of them suiting us would be quite high, eh?"
This theory (of a "Multiverse" of universes) requires ENORMOUS faith! There is no evidence for it whatever, people haven't talked about it before, and it's totally impossible to prove or disprove. Perhaps it's harder to believe in than God?
Its only advantage, and what makes it attractive to atheists like Richard Dawkins, is that it avoids God ... so we can continue to think we're the most important beings in the universe.
(4) "Well, the anthropic principle explains it all. It had to happen, otherwise we wouldn't be here talking about it!"
Like multiverses, this is another new idea - its inventor is still alive - and it too is bizarre. The name is meaningless - it simply says "the Principle of Man". It runs like this:
Imagine you're sitting on a tree-branch looking proudly down on your well-kept garden. You might think to yourself "How fortunate that the tree has a branch just here! Otherwise I would fall down."
The anthropic principle says something like this. "You're wrong. The tree HAD to have a branch just there, otherwise you wouldn't be sitting there thinking this. So it's not a lucky coincidence - it was necessary. Or, put another way, if the tree had had its branch somewhere else, you'd be sitting there instead."
But this principle is being totally abused! For its inventor (an astro-physicist) it was quite useful - it means we can expect, from our own existence, to find conditions in our Universe that suit us, e.g. on other planets. Yes indeed. But it says nothing about WHY this all happened. It doesn't tell us why the "Big Bang" (another term invented by Fred Hoyle) occurred and started us all off.
If no trees ever had branches, you would not be sitting looking down at your garden. But does that tell us why trees have branches?
Maybe, just maybe, trees were CREATED to have branches so we can sit on them and enjoy the beautiful world?
The GodOrNot Team
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Comments
He implies, correctly, that God's existence is a theory not verifiable to others. Many people have verified it for themselves - ask them - but you cannot GIVE the proof to others.
But wait! The Multiverse is not testable or verifiable either!
Surely if people choose to believe in one untestable theory (Multiverse) rather than another (God), this has nothing to do with being "rational"? It's a matter of taste, not science?
And believing in the Multiverse is safer! It's not going to tell me I should or shouldn't do things, interfere with my freedom. Right?
You are correct to say that evolution does not concern itself with the start of life; that is outside of it's mandate.
However, life's building blocks (namely amino acids, peptides and phospholipids) have been demonstrated to be capable of spontaneous formation under Earth's early conditions.
Argument #2:
As far as the clockmaker/clock goes:
1) We are not an obviously uncharacteristi c species from this planet (i.e. out of place with our surroundings)
2) Many seemingly complicated structures DO arise without a person or "creator" taking part->crystal formation, the Giant's causeway, buckyballs, etc. Yes, we are more complicated than a crystal structure, however we did not start out this complicated, we evolved.
Argument #3:
It only makes logical sense that our universe would suit us well ... in fact, WE SUIT THE UNIVERSE, not the other way around. We wouldn't do too well if we didn't.
#4: The Big Bang theory does not describe WHY particles started moving quickly away from each other & cooling & forming atoms etc etc ... it deals with what happened. Don't try to discredit one of the most highly supported theories available simply by slandering the guy who nicknamed it. He didn't even subscribe to it!
To your point Tony, the Multiverse seems like a silly, overcomplicated explanation to simply overcome some of the implications of space-time theory.
However, even the champions of this hypothesis would allow that they could be wrong and would, no doubt, abandon it if a better explanation was found that was testable and verifiable.Also to note, there are competing ideas that you may find more convincing (or not, they are quite technical).
However, whether the Multiverse hypothesis or any other hypotheses do not pan out for whatever reason, this is NOT EVIDENCE for a creator being(read "god"). The entire line of reasoning above starts off with the point of view of "well, if we can't explain it, then it was god". That assumption/conclusion is NOT RATIONAL.
We are saying that people will believe almost ANYTHING to avoid recognizing God, even made-up things like "the Multiverse".
They think that life will be much worse if God exists. Strange. No-one who's met Him finds that.
Btw, why does our argument make you angry?
Why don't you just kill yourself if you're so shure that there is a god out there accepting you into heaven...
Do you still believe in santa and everything like that? I guess not, and now you're just one step away from growing up.
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